^Sephiroth^ escribió:diariodeuntrader escribió:Claro que se puede vivir de "estos" como dicen por ahí ...
Los brokers son uno de los que viven de estos, como de Haiku, que ahce operaciones ganando 10 euros, a 10 operaciones por día para ganar 100 euros.
Despues hay que restarle un 33% mínimo de impuestos que se lleva el fisco (si es que lo declara) por lo que habrá ganado apenas 6 euros limpios por operación.
un saludo!
La verdad es que cuando leo comentarios de este tipo entiendo perfectamente a Ikarus en el otro post que abrió diciendo que aquí sólo se leen cosas negativas y criticas sin sentido.
19% para los primeros 6.000€ anuales (sobre ganancias netas, descontando las perdidas) y 21% para el resto... ¿De donde sacas el 33%? ¿Por decir algo, no?
Se nota que poco has pagado tú de beneficios haciendo trading...
Hola Sephiroth, seré educado con lo que voy a decir: La ignorancia es muy atrevida!
No vas por mal camino cuando mencionas eso del 21%, pero eso es para la base imponible del ahorro. Sin embargo, los futuros y opciones tributan como ganancias y pérdidas patrimoniales que se integran en la base imponible general. Si bien las escalas para la base imponible general van del 24% al 43%, creo que para el caso de ganancias y pérdidas patrimoniales NO transmisibles parten de un mínimo del 33%-35%. Esto del 33% NO lo sé a ciencia cierta porque este sería el supuesto de aquel trader que NO obtenga otros ingresos que el trading, que NO es mi caso porque yo tambien curro. En el caso de que NO estuviera yo cierto en esto del 33% mínimo, de todos modos facilmente llegamos a esto del 33-35%, como es mi caso (ya con solo ganar 1 euro en derivados tengo que pagar ese 35% porque mis rendimientos del trabajo, o sea mi curro, ya alcanza ese tramo), e incluso en subirlo sobremanera, cuando por mucho que aplicaras el 24% mínimo (repito para la base imponible general, y NO DEL AHORRO COMO MUCHOS CONFUNDEN), si trabajas y ganas la media nacional de unos 22.000 euros, con apenas ganar 12000 euros en el trading, te plantas en 34000 euros (la suma de trabajo y de ganancia patrimonial) con lo cual ya estas pagando el 35-36% que se aplica en este tramo del IRPF. Ya puestos a callar bocas, y repito como la ignorancia es muy atrevida y cualquier iniciado ya se cree el rey del mambo que ni siquiera sabe distinguir a un perro viejo del nivel 5 de los del resto, mi caso es el siguiente: tengo un buen curro así que con ganar una cantidad moderadita con el trading ya supero los 53000 euros por lo cuales ya tengo que pagar el 43% (tope alto) si provienen de derivados (si fuera de acciones sería el 21%).
Otra cosa es que uno entre en asuntos de eludir impuestos (legal).
Un poco de luz:
http://www.elblogsalmon.com/conceptos-d ... nta-o-irpf
Una cosa voy a dejar clara, que la gente que lea este tipo de foros se entere: NO porque alguien escriba con mucha seguridad es el que tiene la verdad. Hay muchos que creen que saben de lo que hablan y lo suelta a cascoporro y resultan que estan más perdidos que un huerfano en el día del padre.
Para los que NO entiendan de que hablo cuando hablo de "nivel 5" estaría bien que se informaran de las distintas 'fases' o niveles que el trader ha de "superar" para llegar a "algo sensato que parezca más a un negocio viable y rentable" en el mundo del trading. Los que necesiten traductor que usen un traductor google. Por cierto, esto de las 5 fases NO es concluyente, sino
una forma lógica de diferenciar etapas y cambios en el trading que permita entrever una cierta evolución, de donde venimos como iniciados y donde estamos. Como todo iniciado, yo tambien comencé en el Nivel 1. Haiku esta en nivel 1 y lo peor es que nuestro amigo no lo sabe. Sin otra más, aunque mi tono pueda a veces parecer que esté echando el sermón o que vengo a dar rapapolvos, no es mi intención "aguar la fiesta" a los compañeros del foro , sino que vean la realidad, que apliquen sentido común a lo que dicen y hacen (los riesgos de sus operaciones o "sistemas") y compartir ideas sensatas. Me alegro al menos de NO ser el único (Oni y Pai entre otros) que "advierte" a este chico (Haiku) de donde se esta metiendo.
**Los 5 niveles ( en mi opinión la gran mayoria se quedan deambulando entre el nivel 1 y 2 de por vida hasta acabar tirando la toalla, otros alcanzan el nivel 3 pero se quedan atrapados ahí buscando y removiendo sistemas entre sistemas de todo el sistema solar, unos pocos pasan al sistema 4 y los que alcanzan el nivel 4 ya facilmente entran ,solo les falta hacer unos ajustes, en nivel 5):
Where are you as a trader.
Level 1 Trader
Level 1 Unconscious incompetence
Once you sign the wrong agreement trading, here you are. You are a trader because you heard that a trader can beat the revenue income of a director of the SOEs. After all when you have profit simulation 3 times, then what is hard?.
You may be able to profit with the stunning 100 points to 200 points per lot per day, but it was all just a beginner just luck. You would not believe at first, with only rely on one indicator alone, or even just the instinct (read the article about the psychology of trading instinct), anyway you can profit.
Unfortunately, the market will beat you. There were no successful traders only by a factor of LUCK. loss after loss approaching you, but if you try to survive until the expiration margin, who can stand?.
You did not realize that you could not trading, you still think you can be trading even though the facts say otherwise (whether in the profit?, Profit last month?, This year’s profit?).
You still think that you are very special people, who will be able to get the key assets of the trading. And you do not realize that 90% of traders who fail to also have feelings like that. You do not have a system that kumplit, you are ruled by your emotions, you are always averaging a position where you Anger at loss for market, you always take a small profit in the amount of profit or suffer loss because you changed so ruled by Greed, because you do not have trading Fear / Fear. You let yourself ruled by emotions so you suffer margin equity.
90% of people trading up to this level only, they usually give up, stop trading and take this all just a sheer nightmare. some of the moral down, they are still looking for investors and trading like mad. the margin of a month or two ago exhausted their search for more victims.
They still claimed to be a trader, but in fact they Executor. and often the moral of this down will gladly served as the broker management. and some of them will remain as usual and claimed ngantor trader but never trading, they often blame themselves.
Only a matter of time, until when they can stay in this level and the time always wins.
90% of traders in this level, and only 10% aware and move to level 2.
Level 2 Trader
Level 2 conscious incompetence
At this level you realize that you could not trading, you do not have the ability to generate trading profits consistently. And you know the solution, you realize that for the level 1 is obscured by the emotions you thought you so you can not think clearly.
At this level you will find the holy grail (a perfect system, the system is 100% profit, the system has not been loss), you get to buy a system on the Internet, you have to read all about trading website from UK, USA, Australia , Europe to Russia, you have read all the ebook, you Practice all the systems you have, you thirst for knowledge as a wanderer in the desert thirsting for water.
At this level you will read all the details about the indicators, you will test all that is in the metatrader indicator, but you probably will make their own indicator (usually a combination of 2 or 3 indicators), you’ll play with moving averages, fibonnacci lines, pivot point, camarilla pivot, deMark, Fractals, Divergence, DMI. ADX, Bollinger Bands, and hundreds of other indicators.
You know that the market is too complex to predict only one indicator alone, you know the ideal combination of each indicator. You know percis the advantages and disadvantages indicator.
You will try to guess the TOP and BOTTOM of the market with the indicator. You will join the chat room and ask the trader questions ***** on senior trader. because you know if you do not ask now so you will not ever know.
At the end of this level you will get 5 to 10 complete system and try to figure out which system is best suited to your personality.
10% of traders who have at this level, only about 7% of the successful move to level 3
Level 3 Trader
Level 3 The EUREKA Moment
At the end of level 2, you finally realize the main problem lies not in the system. You realize that you can get profit even if only using a simple system such as moving average without any other indicator, if you can use your head and money management right.
You begin to read books on trading psychology, and identify with the characters described in the book. Finally came the Level of Enlightenment.
Level of enlightenment is to make your brain realizes one thing is important, in this world no one is able to accurately predict what will happen in the market 30 seconds later.
You began to dominate the trading system and modify it to fit with your character, and can provide more profit than the original system.
You start trading if you know the probability for a larger profit than for loss, you are trading only if the signal from your system, you always use Stoploss, because you know Stoploss is a business risk in the trading world.
When Stoploss you have to, do not you emotionally because you know no one can predict, and it’s not your fault. Will increase the probability of the next trading profitnya because you know your system is the profit system.
You are instantly aware that trading in the world there is only one important thing is consistency in the system, trading psychology and money management you. And discipline you to do any trading occurs.
You learn about money management, 2% risk, and other things. and it reminds you a year ago when someone gave the same advice to you and you choose to nonsense.then you are not yet ready but now you are ready.
At the level of enlightenment, your brain will accept that you can not predict market movements, because nobody can.
Than 7% of traders who have at this level, only about 5% of the successful advance to the next level.
Level 4 Trader
Level 4 Competence conscious
Okay, now you are just trading system if and only if you give the signal.
You cut the trivial loss to take profit. because you know your system will give more profit than loss, and cut loss is a risk that you do business is max 2% of your account.
At this level you start with a profit target of 20 points per day, and after you can do it consistently for a few weeks, you increase the target with a 40 point per day. And that in turn can you do.
You still have to work really hard to get it, fix your system, control your emotions, and perform money management that you hold.
This level usually runs about 6 months.
Than 5% of traders only about 3% are willing to advance to the next level.
Level 5 Trader
Unconscious Competence Level 5
Well now you reach level 5, this is the level that most expected by the trader in the world, at this level you can be trading in nature, you have mastered it, you can be Dancing with the Market, wherever the current market, you have open in the correct position, so you live to see your profile move from 2 digit to 3 digits.
This is the top level of a trader, this is the level of utopia, you have mastered your emotions and you are now trading in the account continues to grow every day from the cumulative profit that you earn.
You’ll be a star in the trading chat room, and people will listen to what you say, you are familiar with their questions, because you have positioned them two years ago.
You will provide advice to them, but you know that most of them will not listen because they are still level 1 trader.
You will not have financial problems again, you can buy all the items available for sale, you can buy the island and trading there as long as there is internet, you can move to a 5 star hotel, and became permanent residents there.
You have income as a superstar, you can make the book itself, you could be trading with a margin of no limits, and your account will be multiplied-fold from the initial account.
Only 3% of traders who are able to reach this level.
Now you can proudly say “I’m A TRADER”.
y sin ánimo de aguar la fiesta escriviendo "cosas negativas",
un saludo!
.